What you say Oppo? Lids or no?

"Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius" (rex-imperator)
10/10/2014 at 10:21 • Filed to: None

I'm Gnostic on this for the moment, but what are the plusses and minuses of roofs as driver protection?

A few headaches I see are temps in hot places and defogging in wet conditions. What do you think?

DISCUSSION (42)

Sweet Trav > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 10:27

Nope.

Driving a race car SHOULD be dangerous, I say more power, more Aero and less regulation makes for better racing. Let the drivers choose.

They know what they are signing up for, if they wont, I will. I'll risk my life for a shit-ton of money, no problem.

That's what all pro sports are, sacrificing your body and well being for a big fat check.

48 Spoons > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 10:28

I'd be okay if that was the homologation special.

crowmolly > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 10:28

Extraction in the case of fire would be a concern of mine.

It has got to be good for aero, though.

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 10:28

I believe you mean agnostic — If you were gnostic you'd know.

William Byrd > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 10:29

Close em up. IMO it looks cooler and if its safer, all the better.

Conan > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 10:29

I can't see ever getting something roofless. Maybe someday if I have enough resources/garage space.

Sam > Sweet Trav
10/10/2014 at 10:31

Yes, because the one way to make racing more popular is to cause more deaths! People love seeing the drivers as they go limp inside the cockpit succumbing to their injuries!

Sam > crowmolly
10/10/2014 at 10:32

They could have a system similar to the SLS's doors, where the top blows off with the flip of a switch.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 10:32

Unless they have developed the transparent Vibranium, a closed cockpit wouldn't have helped Jules.

Sweet Trav > Sam
10/10/2014 at 10:34

It's only a matter of time before we're televising executions.

"safe" racing is boring racing. Watch an old F1 race from the 60 and 70's, I'd rather watch that than this current crap.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
10/10/2014 at 10:34

I get that, but 'under-ride' accidents in F1 are exceedingly rare, yet Marussia has done it twice.

I think for sure that Felipa would have fared better, Surtees' son would have surely fared better.

NickDavisGB > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 10:37

I vote for Ejection Seats.

Kinja'd!!!

Otherwise you might as well call them Le Mans Prototypes.

midengineer > Sweet Trav
10/10/2014 at 10:37

Although racing is going to be inherently dangerous it also helps drive safety through innovation (which usually occurs due to regulation). We can make cars faster but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make them more safe.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 10:39

As far as flying debris go, yes, they would help. But you also have fire danger, and that's where canopies are a massive hindrance.

ArmadaExpress drives a turbo outback > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 10:39

I'm all for closed cockpits.

Sweet Trav > midengineer
10/10/2014 at 10:40

Wider tires, More Aero = more control = faster, safer, but not for the sake of safety.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > NickDavisGB
10/10/2014 at 10:40

Now you're thinkin'!

Well, we will leave out the fact that LeMans is way more exciting to watch than F1.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > Sweet Trav
10/10/2014 at 10:44

Alan walked away pissed, but not broken. The continual challenge of new and better safety has been a hallmark of racing for the past few decades. I don't think I could disagree with you more.

Kinja'd!!!

crowmolly > Sam
10/10/2014 at 10:44

I'd imagine that's exactly what they would do, with a manual override. I'd guess the incidence rate of that kind of accident is probably low, but it would still be a concern to me.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
10/10/2014 at 10:44

Fire is a big deal, but other closed series seem to do ok.

Mattbob > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 10:44

what about a reinforced framed windshield? You could have the best of both worlds with the proper design. Some reinforcement to a windshield would allow it to withstand the same impact of a canopy, and the driver could still get out if needed.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > 48 Spoons
10/10/2014 at 10:45

YES! Carbon fenders and some lights.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 10:46

They have doors.

With the exception being Top Fuel.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > Mattbob
10/10/2014 at 10:46

That's kind of what I'm thinking.

Viggen > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 10:48

plusses and minuses of roofs as driver protection?

Pluses: Protection against debris, oil, bugs, birds, dirt. Much safer in a catastrophic crash, as any of the LMP1 crashes since 2011 will show.

Minuses: Visibility, which can be corrected with a rear-view camera.

A few headaches I see are temps in hot places and defogging in wet conditions. What do you think?

Add driver cooling, wiper(s), and defog. Increase engine power to make up for added weight.

JGrabowMSt > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 10:51

F1 doesn't need to go this far. It's a dangerous sport. Look at the Isle of Man TT. Those guys on motorcycles know their risks. F1 is no different.

Harsher penalties for those that cause crashes, and better investigations when cars fail. It's Formula 1, not 200MPH Demolition Derby. Yes, it's competitive, but if the drivers fail to recognize when their actions are unsafe, there should be a penalty for it.

Yes, Ayrton Senna said that "when you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver." But I think we can all agree that there are gaps where your car fits, and gaps where it doesn't.

Putting these full front windshields on the car will prove to be a challenge when a driver needs to be extracted. If a tire at 200MPH doesn't break it, what happens when the responders can't get the thing off? Are they just going to smack it with a little hammer and pull the driver out? I don't think so.

Another reason for not putting full windshields on the car is to prevent too much better aero. Sure, the desire is for more speed, no one is going to deny that. Are the tires ready for the speed increases it could cause? What about the suspension, and other aero bits that will need to be re-designed. It will certainly affect the weight and downforce at speed as well.

Finding a limit for F1 is important. Sure, they have fuel limitations now, and engine size limitations, and ride height, etc. I'm not saying slow the sport down, I'm saying that maybe until there are more drastic advancements in manufacturing of materials durable enough (like the aerospace polycarbonate) and affordable enough, it may be time to wait before making a huge advancement.

But that's just my opinion. Take it as you will.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 10:52

Kinja'd!!!

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 10:58

Kinja'd!!!

How about nyet.

It would increase weight, and make it more difficult for the driver to get out in the case of a rollover. Someone suggested a system that would pop the roof open, but if the car is upside-down or on fire, and the driver is incapacitated, that extra time taken to open the canopy could be a matter of life and death. It honestly probably wouldn't be that much safer in Bianchi's case considering whatever glass-like material that is would certainly break when coming in contact with a goddamn crane, though it would certainly help with airborne debris. Things like switching out the steering wheel (like in Japan) would be much more difficult, adding time to pit stops and interrupting the flow of the race. In bad conditions and heavy rain, it could be very difficult to see out of unless there was also a wiper, and motor, both of which add weight, and this requires a relatively flat windscreen, which would likely not work with a current F1 car and would likely do weird things to the aero. A fighter-jet style canopy could work, but then a wiper would be extremely difficult. Heat in the canopy would also be an issue. Drivers get out of their cars drenched is sweat as it is. If we put them in a closed space, they would only get hotter (and I feel ducting air into the cabin could increase drag, but I know nothing of aero so take that with salt).

There are certainly upsides to a closed cockpit, but I'm not sure if they would outweigh the cons enough. Keep in mind that these are just potential problems I just brain-stormed without a huge amount of thought. If anyone wants to poke holes, feel free.

Viggen > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 10:58

And then have them be raced by a team of three drivers, over extended periods of time...

TheBaron2112 > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 11:11

No canopies.

Pluses are no more getting hit in the face with car parts or tractors.

Minuses are literally everything else. Drivers can't get out as quickly in case of a fire, it's one more mechanical item that can break, leaving drivers trapped in their cars, if a car were to flip upside down, the car would have to be righted before the driver could get out, etc etc.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > Viggen
10/10/2014 at 11:18

I see what ya did there. I would rather watch that type of racing for sure, but FauxSports buys the rights to the race, blacks it out on American internet streaming, and then shows college football during the race so we don't get to see it at all.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O)
10/10/2014 at 11:19

tea-totteler!

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 11:20

Defogging won't be that big of an issue. They already have that taken care of with films they use on visors. What I see being a bigger issue is driver extraction.

Viggen > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 11:41

Just saying, Petit was viewable online and all races will be next year too.

MHunter905 > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 11:48

With the technology available I think a safe and good looking race car can be designed. I do like the rendering above and I think some modern technology would improve the cars making them superior to the current open cockpit versions. Closed cock pit means several good things, increased aerodynamics which could provide more down-force improving cornering and less drag which could enable higher top speeds. Making the windshield fog resistant would be important to maintain good visibility and having a strong material that could deflect flying debris and other race cars to protect the drivers head. A device like this may have saved the lives of many drivers like Senna who suffered a fatal head injury. I saw someone mentioned how a closed cock pit may increase the difficulty of extracting a driver well I completely disagree. LeMans prototype race cars are closed cock pit and although they are larger the performance and safety benefits must outweigh the increased difficulty of extraction. Perhaps some type of "fighter jet like" pop-top canopy could be engineered to help safety teams quickly remove the roof. It makes me a bit angry when I hear innovative new ideas for safety shrugged off because the FIA and F1 executives think something might be ugly.... seriously these people are scum who care more about making another dollar than giving a crap about some young racer who they only want to exploit for the money. And someone put Rossi in a friggin car already!

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > Viggen
10/10/2014 at 11:53

IMSA was on air, but WEC was not and I'm still pissed about it.

The channel info at the bottom of the screen said '2014 Lone Star Le Mans, WEC Auto Racing' but it was a W Virginia game on the air.

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 12:55

(I don't know what that means)

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O)
10/10/2014 at 13:01

That was the name for the people (old ladies usually but not always) who rejected alcohol before Prohibition. At the time it was a compliment. It meant that you were clear-headed and exhibited good manners and self control. Over time it became an insult about how you're old fashioned and afraid of having fun.

I was sarcastically using it in the second sense.

Feel free to spring that one on your friends.

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
10/10/2014 at 13:02

Ahahaha. You learn something new every day! I will definitely remember that one.

DanimalHouse > crowmolly
10/10/2014 at 14:31

#ProblemSolved

Kinja'd!!!

crowmolly > DanimalHouse
10/10/2014 at 15:04

First place I went is here:

Kinja'd!!!

DanimalHouse > crowmolly
10/10/2014 at 15:55

Dude, what the eff.